Since releasing the version 1.2 update for Sins: Trinity/Diplomacy, a lot of work has gone into a substantial redesign of its gameplay. When we first released Trinity last year, we’d overhauled the diplomatic and relationship systems in the hopes of giving players the ability to be a virtual puppetmaster that would make Machiavelli proud.  Unfortunately, we fell short of that design goal, and while a number of good improvements did pan out, the diplomatic aspects ended up feeling pretty lackluster.

While diving deep into a redesign of Trinity’s additions, it became apparent that a number of areas needed to be rethought including: pacts being too mundane or exclusionary to some races, the AI not factoring relations into decisions better, basic envoy abilities that were not useful, and a mission system that the AI couldn’t cope with. In this three part journal series, I’m going to go over some of the major changes that will be included in the upcoming version 1.3 update.



Rethinking Diplomacy

Relationships

At the core of Trinity’s diplomatic system is its relationship factors, a series of categories that let you know what affect your actions have on the galaxy and what other players think of you. This system works quite well, but can be subject to wild swings that make no sense: players may be well liked one moment by another faction, only to be hated the next. Similarly, it can be difficult to gain enough relationship with another faction to access any of the pact bonuses.

To improve the relations system, we took a harder look at each factor and what was included as part of its value. For starters, Racial Inclination (which indicates how much each faction likes one another at the start of a game) has been made a bit broader - even between factions of the same race. Additionally, Military Actions are now updated constantly and based more on what a player is destroying (i.e., frigate vs capital ship vs planet). In fact, destroying a player’s enemies is now a sure way to make them like you. Diplomatic Actions has been changed substantially too, so that it will now look at a player’s entire web of relationships. In game terms, this means that each player will look at who your friends and enemies are, and weigh that information accordingly, which should lead to some good rivalries.

In the next journal article, I’ll go over the changes to the Mission system that Sins uses and how the AI will look at missions differently.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 23, 2011

Yarlen, thanks for the update we have all been waiting for. I'm looking foward to the new update. Thanks for the continued support guys!

on Jun 23, 2011

While diving deep into a redesign of Trinity’s additions, it became apparent that a number of areas needed to be rethought including: pacts being too mundane or exclusionary to some races, the AI not factoring relations into decisions better, basic envoy abilities that were not useful, and a mission system that the AI couldn’t cope with. In this three part journal series, I’m going to go over some of the major changes that will be included in the upcoming version 1.3 update.

I'm looking forward to seeing what will change with pacts and envoy's and how it will affect multiplayer usage.

From a modding perspective any chance we can get some filler pacts for mods that add more than three races?

Thanks for the update and looking forward to the next updates!

on Jun 23, 2011

Hey Stardock team. Just wanted you to all know that I just bought a new gaming notebook in anticipation of Rebellion. This is the second time I've upgraded my laptop, pretty much just for sins. 

 

To the rest of you on the forums. I have a project I'm putting together in light of the final space shuttle launch this July 8th called Chasing Atlantis you may be interested in. It's a short documentary road-trip-style film I'm doing with an indie film studio. If you're interested, check us out at www.chasingatlantis.com If you like what you see, follow us on Twitter, join the FB page, or our YouTube Channel. 

Cheers

-Cepheid

on Jun 24, 2011

Thanks

on Jun 24, 2011

Question. How often will these journals be posted and whats the ETA of v1.3?

on Jun 24, 2011

Yea im looking forward to interesting pacts and better envoys too. Perhaps their supply cost will come down a little as well? (unless they are buffed or their abilities are re-vamped considerably)

The pirate overhaul made single player a fair bit more fun for those of us who love free-for-all smash ups against the AI, but I think this will be even better. Btw Yarlen, you guys mentioned that a fix to the Domina (channeling abilities) could be on the table a while back, will this get done in a similar time frame? Or may come with Rebellion/one of its patches? 

on Jun 24, 2011

Wraith767
Question. How often will these journals be posted and whats the ETA of v1.3?

The next two will be published next week, with the patch tentatively scheduled for after July 4th.  We're spending the next week or so getting the balance correct because so much as changed (and there's quite a few gameplay modes to consider).

 

rowanlad
Yea im looking forward to interesting pacts and better envoys too. Perhaps their supply cost will come down a little as well? (unless they are buffed or their abilities are re-vamped considerably)

The pirate overhaul made single player a fair bit more fun for those of us who love free-for-all smash ups against the AI, but I think this will be even better. Btw Yarlen, you guys mentioned that a fix to the Domina (channeling abilities) could be on the table a while back, will this get done in a similar time frame? Or may come with Rebellion/one of its patches? 

Both supply cost and build time have been reduced substantially.  The upcoming dev journals will delve into the Envoys new abilities, the updated Pacts and more. 

The Domina fix is still pending. Not sure yet if that will be in the Trinity patch, but it will be in Rebellion.

on Jun 24, 2011

Good news on a Friday. Thanks Yarlen! This is a great way to head into the weekend!

on Jun 24, 2011

This is indeed good news.  Will there be a beta phase for 1.3, because I'd be more than happy to beta the changes for you, especially as you might not have that large a beta team available?

What the AI needs to do more than anything else is to be able to form a stop-the-leader alliance, which is the first concept I'd test for in the new version.  It also needs some strategic sense as to what alliances are in its favour, which the proximity modifier might be useful to control, if it was working properly.  Allowing the AI a clearer concept of who its friends are is very welcome, but even more it needs a sense of where its strategic advantages lie.  The Tsar and the French Republic were allies, as were the Americans and Louis XVI.. yet the French had invaded Russia far more recently than the Germans, while the Americans and British had only just concluded a successful war against the French. N'est-ce pas?

The Diplomatic Victory needs a major rework, some means to identifying won games to make them shorter is very welcome but as it is the Diplomatic Victory identifies past game states as more important than current game states, which makes it seem very arbitrary.  I've often argued that the exploration element of Sins was underused and could be utilised to play the important role in a Diplomatic Victory, much like the 'artifact victory' of popular RTS  games like Age of Empires 2.  I'd urge you to at least consider this option.

I'll have a look at my notes on relations over the weekend.  I hadn't played the game for a while until the last patch, as lag was affecting my MP games too badly and there didn't seem much point in SP.  However, MP has improved since the server was checked and I've had a few games without lag.  Well done, I hope that as much can be achieved for the SP game.  

on Jun 25, 2011

Yarlen
Both supply cost and build time have been reduced substantially. The upcoming dev journals will delve into the Envoys new abilities, the updated Pacts and more.

 

I hope not too much reduced.  In multiplayer, the first team to fleet supply pact usually wins.  If you make it so the economy guy never has to increase fleet supply to get it, then the game will end very quickly and may not be fair to the other team that may not have an economy player (or TEC for that matter).  I guess I'll wait until the next journal entry, but balancing this will be delicate.

 

Also, will there be any love to the random map generator?  In this thread:  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/327283 , Blair Fraizer ackowledged it would (reply #3), but it never has.

Blair Fraser
-Map generator problem is too complicated for the remaining time alotted for 1.1. Its not as simple as guaranteeing one asteroid connection + num lanes. It'll likely get more attention in the one of the expansions (which really isn't that far away).

on Jun 26, 2011

I love SOASE's RTS vibe, but I also love the 4X they rub on it. It's one of my hopes that SOASE 2 will be made one day and incorporate more (or rather, more IN DEPTH) 4X elements... a true successor to MOO2, so to speak. Don't get me wrong, GalCiv2 is a dope game (I play it frequently), but it's so tongue-in-cheek and mock-serious, that it's... well... hard to take seriously sometimes. SOASE is just serious enough where if it had the expanded 4X elements, it would take home the win.

All that said, I'm very glad to see the start of it - a better diplomacy system is hopefully just the beginning! IC/Star Dock's continued (quality!) support for this game has once again ensured that I will be buying the next step (Rebellion). Keep up the good work guys, and I'll keep on recommending the game to others!

-Itharus

on Jun 27, 2011

Sweet!  Thanks guys, I knew checking the forums daily would pay off

on Jun 29, 2011

Yarlen,

 

Will this patch fix any of the issues we talked about with the game pausing and slowing down several hours into a game?

Nice that you guys are still working hard on the game and patching it.

Appreciate it!

on Jun 30, 2011

Howdidudothat
I hope not too much reduced.  In multiplayer, the first team to fleet supply pact usually wins.  If you make it so the economy guy never has to increase fleet supply to get it, then the game will end very quickly and may not be fair to the other team that may not have an economy player (or TEC for that matter).  I guess I'll wait until the next journal entry, but balancing this will be delicate.

The Fleet Supply Pact no longer does what it used to.

on Jun 30, 2011

Darksxx
Will this patch fix any of the issues we talked about with the game pausing and slowing down several hours into a game?

It may help a bit, as we've optimized some of the Diplomacy stuff, but I don't know if it'll have any dramatic impact.

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